Topological Naming Issue: any news?

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BartR
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Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by BartR »

I just got in trouble with a project for this issue.
So I will not modify the part at all (nothing blocking) because I got the part totally de-built.

My question is: is there any news, form the development guys, about this issue?
Is there any hope it will be solved?

Thank you very much in advance
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Bart R.
drmacro
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by drmacro »

BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:45 pm I just got in trouble with a project for this issue.
So I will not modify the part at all (nothing blocking) because I got the part totally de-built.

My question is: is there any news, form the development guys, about this issue?
Is there any hope it will be solved?

Thank you very much in advance
Umm...there is specific development branch where the merge of the TNP mitigation is being implemented.

It has been under way for around a year.

TNP is an inherent problem with parametric modelling. It is only mitigated to a point in commercial modellers, it will be mitigated, to a point, in FreeCAD eventually. But, you will still need to know how to deal with it when it happens.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
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BartR
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by BartR »

drmacro wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:58 pm
BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:45 pm I just got in trouble with a project for this issue.
So I will not modify the part at all (nothing blocking) because I got the part totally de-built.

My question is: is there any news, form the development guys, about this issue?
Is there any hope it will be solved?

Thank you very much in advance
Umm...there is specific development branch where the merge of the TNP mitigation is being implemented.

It has been under way for around a year.

TNP is an inherent problem with parametric modelling. It is only mitigated to a point in commercial modellers, it will be mitigated, to a point, in FreeCAD eventually. But, you will still need to know how to deal with it when it happens.
Does it mean that also other CADs as Fusion or Inventor have the same issue?

yes I have to be very careful. However I tried to consider it on any step I have made, but my attention was evidently not enough :-/
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Bart R.
drmacro
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by drmacro »

BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:11 pm ...

Does it mean that also other CADs as Fusion or Inventor have the same issue?
Yes, they do. Though they do handle it much better. But it still can happen.
yes I have to be very careful. However I tried to consider it on any step I have made, but my attention was evidently not enough :-/
It is best to learn all the techniques for avoidance and the techniques to correct.

Correcting requires a methodical approach.

Typically, there are red exclamation points on features in the tree.

Set the Tip to the highest one, correct what is now referenced wrong.
move the tip down to the next, fix.
wash and repeat moving down the tree

Assemblies, cross document links may need to be fixed as well. And, of course Tech Draw, Sheetmetal, etc. that have no choice but to use generated geometry need to be regenerated.

There are currently tools, like TopoX10 and the map macros offered by @sebasg84 that help avoiding and fixing as well.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
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onekk
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by onekk »

See maybe this post:

viewtopic.php?t=75768

It is not neglected, simply it is not very visible in actual "main development branch", as the main concerns of "FreeCAD stock version" is stability and compatibility with already produced files.

If you follow some threads in "Open discussion" and "Developer corner" you will easily be aware of some facts.

Integration is advancing, but with some careful to "not break anything", sadly this is not very visible, so most people think that is an "easy task" simply postponed, usually people that don't know how hard is to code things. Here in Italy, very often you will hear, "it suffice to hit a button" as an example of what easy is to do thing with a computer. Sadly it (!= True) (for coders it is clear, for other maybe not) :lol:

But there are also many things behind the curtains to be done like:

-Qt6 adoption (many distributions start to supply Qt6 and probably some of them will deprecate Qt5 maybe next year)
- modernisation of C++ code to improve maintainabilty and following language evolutions. (This will lead to many improvements once achieved).
- UI/UX modernisations, like theming and ironing out some inconsistencies between different part of the interface.
- Skecther improvement, there are some PR that probably will be a "milestone" when adopted, but it is not easy to integrate "new code" into existing codebase and "new coders" into existing "development team". :lol:

Regards

Carlo D.
GitHub page: https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
- Learning how to model with scripting.
- Various other stuffs.

Blog: https://okkmkblog.wordpress.com/
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BartR
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by BartR »

drmacro wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:23 pm
BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:11 pm ...

Does it mean that also other CADs as Fusion or Inventor have the same issue?
Yes, they do. Though they do handle it much better. But it still can happen.
yes I have to be very careful. However I tried to consider it on any step I have made, but my attention was evidently not enough :-/
It is best to learn all the techniques for avoidance and the techniques to correct.

Correcting requires a methodical approach.

Typically, there are red exclamation points on features in the tree.

Set the Tip to the highest one, correct what is now referenced wrong.
move the tip down to the next, fix.
wash and repeat moving down the tree

Assemblies, cross document links may need to be fixed as well. And, of course Tech Draw, Sheetmetal, etc. that have no choice but to use generated geometry need to be regenerated.

There are currently tools, like TopoX10 and the map macros offered by @sebasg84 that help avoiding and fixing as well.

On my project, I 've made 2 threaded holes. Once the proof-of-concept was ready, I have made some small modifications and the thread is not more needed. So I decided to remove it. Just untick the "thread" checkbox. Once closed, all the project was screwed-up and now i have to correct things one by one :-/


@onekk thank you for your highlight.
It's not my intention, nor I even thought, to tell "it's sufficient to push a button". I know it's an heavy issue. Just I'm wondering at which stage is the development, in the hope we can have less worries somewhere in the next future.
I was not aware on all CAD this issue occurs :-/

What is Qt5 and Qt6?
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Bart R.
drmacro
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by drmacro »

BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:22 pm ...

On my project, I 've made 2 threaded holes. Once the proof-of-concept was ready, I have made some small modifications and the thread is not more needed. So I decided to remove it. Just untick the "thread" checkbox. Once closed, all the project was screwed-up and now i have to correct things one by one :-/
Unfortunately, if you selected generated geometry of the model, after the thread was created, to support anything (sketch, fillet, chamfer) then removing the thread would do that.
What is Qt5 and Qt6?
Qt is the software toolbox that handles the display and layout of the UI.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
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BartR
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by BartR »

drmacro wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:28 pm
BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:22 pm ...

On my project, I 've made 2 threaded holes. Once the proof-of-concept was ready, I have made some small modifications and the thread is not more needed. So I decided to remove it. Just untick the "thread" checkbox. Once closed, all the project was screwed-up and now i have to correct things one by one :-/
Unfortunately, if you selected generated geometry of the model, after the thread was created, to support anything (sketch, fillet, chamfer) then removing the thread would do that.
What is Qt5 and Qt6?
Qt is the software toolbox that handles the display and layout of the UI.
Ok so I will leave the piece as it is. the next ones I will remove the thread just by had. It's not a big issue, I just wanted to have the .STL without anything I can forget in the future :-)
The modifications I have made are not due bad things in the manufactured pieces. Just the kind of screw I wanted, were delivered, and I discovered they are a bit different than the one I really wanted for this project. So Im' adapting the project to the available screws.

I modified all the pieces, accordingly, and they were the most important ones.
I will just write a note aside the project for the threads of this piece
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onekk
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by onekk »

BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:51 pm ...
Ok so I will leave the piece as it is. the next ones I will remove the thread just by had. It's not a big issue, I just wanted to have the .STL without anything I can forget in the future :-)
The modifications I have made are not due bad things in the manufactured pieces. Just the kind of screw I wanted, were delivered, and I discovered they are a bit different than the one I really wanted for this project. So Im' adapting the project to the available screws.
...

Some things have to be placed as last operations, as they are prone to be "dangerous".

Or maybe using a different approach, I usually have avoided most of these things, using scripting, so my models even complex ones like those shown here :

viewtopic.php?p=658152#p658152

are done using scripting, even the assembly part, and almost totally parametric, (some things have to be done by hand, eyeballing some 3d space coordinate to put in the code. :lol: )

Around 140Kb of code in 5 Python files. So it will even go in an old floppy disk even the 360Kb 5 and 1/4 " one (if you are old enough to remember them).

Regards

Carlo D.
GitHub page: https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
- Learning how to model with scripting.
- Various other stuffs.

Blog: https://okkmkblog.wordpress.com/
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saso
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Re: Topological Naming Issue: any news?

Post by saso »

BartR wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:22 pm On my project, I 've made 2 threaded holes. Once the proof-of-concept was ready, I have made some small modifications and the thread is not more needed. So I decided to remove it. Just untick the "thread" checkbox. Once closed, all the project was screwed-up and now i have to correct things one by one :-/
Have you modeled it in the standard FC version or in realthunders FC ? If you have modeled it in the standard version and if you still have a copy of the final "good" model with thread and if you have the time and will :) then you could do a small test, download and open your model in realthunders (FCLink) version (BUT DO SAVE A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL FILE :) ), first test will be to see if your model will upgrade to TP support with no issues, second remove the thread as you did and see if the TP implemented in his version will save you the trouble... or not :roll: because this is how it will be once his TP solution is implemented in the master and every bit of testing can help
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