[solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

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drmacro
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by drmacro »

Hologram wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:04 pm This diametrically opposed:
"Yes, I need it"
vs "No I am fine with addons or don't use it at all"
Won't get the discussion anywhere.

My 2cts is that generic workflow features, such as selection filters, would generally benefit everyone's workflow. You can choose not to use them, sure.

But that's different from saying: "I need feature X so I can model RC planes" or "I need high-end NURBS surfacing to model cars". To me the distinction in what to include by default or to exclude boils down to whether a feature would generally be useful or benefit many workflows as opposed to just a small subset of workflows for a niche industry/ branch.

In Blender, there are many addons that you need to use for some serious modelling (e.g. for select through, loop cuts not being in the center, grouping, handling booleans, moving the 3d cursor and origin, etc.). If any of these addonmakers stops development and compatibility with master ceases to be a thing, then it leads to a large gap in functionality for the software. And that's not advantageous to users.
I get that not developing certain things in master helps to do other things, it's a trade-of and there's only so much time devs can spend on it. But in the long run, it benefits the user to have a reliable, maintained workflow. To me, many addons should be seen as proof of concept or stop-gap band-aid for the time being. Relying on addons in long or very long run will come back at you at some point, unfortunately. It's better to have feature development spread across a group, than to rely on a single, albeit generous, volunteer.
This, or similar discussions, arise every so often. New user thinks there is all kinds of improvements that could help if this or that was available. FreeCAD is what it is. It has gotten better as time has progressed. You have spent a LOT of effort to, essentially, say what has been said hundreds of times before.

FreeCAD gets better at whatever pace it gets better at. (In fact that pace has increased over the past couple years.)

As to your volunteers, at this point, Addon maker or dev, they are volunteers (and devs are far fewer than addon makers...). There is no group to spread across.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with relying on addons long term. And, in fact, many workbenches have started as addons, even experiments, and ultimately ended up in the core.

The problem you describe with orphaned addons is real, no doubt, I could name some with both Blender and FreeCAD. That doesn't make the concept bad, it's inherent user extensible software.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
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dprojects
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by dprojects »

NewJoker wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:57 pm It's really small for a CAD software. Including all workbenches and macros in basic FreeCAD package wouldn't make sense since the majority of them are rather niche and meant for very specific purposes. But there are a few (just a few) that contain functionalities so fundamental that they should be included in FreeCAD itself in my opinion. Implementing them wouldn't significantly increase the size of FreeCAD. And let's keep in mind that nowadays a few GB are nothing for most of our computer drives.
When I was little I had a hamster, I liked him very much, he liked to store everything, I'm sure he would support your point of view ;-)
But such approach is only possible for small software.

If I would lead the FreeCAD I would create 3 build versions:
  • minimum - no Path and other useless things, only core needed to start FreeCAD + library
  • normal - as it is now
  • full - all possible useful workbenches
With this approach you would be able to create minimalistic working version "minimum + your plugin" for your private needs.

Also FreeCAD website and forum should be sub-divided for specialized communities that develop its own workbenches, extensions.

All divisions should be described at FreeCAD official website and any user looking for example "woodworking" should be redirected to woodworking community at forum. The same for CNC, metal, Robotics and so on.

This how mature software should be managed.

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Darek
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workbench for woodworking is available at: github.com/dprojects/Woodworking
drmacro
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by drmacro »

dprojects wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:48 pm ...
Yeah, like that's going to happen with a couple paid folks and a dozen or so volunteers.

;)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
Hologram
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by Hologram »

drmacro wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:21 pm FreeCAD is what it is. It has gotten better as time has progressed. You have spent a LOT of effort to, essentially, say what has been said hundreds of times before.

FreeCAD gets better at whatever pace it gets better at. (In fact that pace has increased over the past couple years.)

It is what it is, take it or leave it.

What I am saying only makes sense when there is a choice whether to develop new features or to expand core features. That moment of choice doesn't seem to be now.

What is relevant though, is that in the long run, it would be best if volunteers decide to add to master, rather than to addons. Although more time-consuming up front, in the long run, the features are more likely to remain (even when the initial dev left the project). And that core devs need to be considerate not to rely to much on addons for main workflows. That was my point, implicitely.

Yet still, it develops as it does, the way it does.
I agree with the rest. 😉
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by Hologram »

Ultimately, I'm hoping that governments would invest in FOSS, both as part of an educational curriculum for software development studies and to use FOSS for their own needs. In the end everyone benefits from sharing solutions, e.g. if Krita does text work and FreeCAD spline based work, Blender does 3d rendering, etc. the programs can benefit mutually. But where to start for government funding, that's the real question and perhaps too off-topic for this thread.
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Zolko
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by Zolko »

dprojects wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:48 pm This how mature software should be managed.
Do you realise how ridiculous it is what you're saying ?
try the Assembly4 workbench for FreCAD — tutorials here and here
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NewJoker
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by NewJoker »

dprojects wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:48 pm If I would lead the FreeCAD I would create 3 build versions:
  • minimum - no Path and other useless things, only core needed to start FreeCAD + library
  • normal - as it is now
  • full - all possible useful workbenches
That actually makes sense. Nowadays we often measure the capacity of our computers' drives in terabytes. And even with smaller drives most of us can easily handle a few GB more for FreeCAD. For example, SolidWorks takes around 20 GB. But if someone has very little free space then he could just choose the minimum version.
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by dprojects »

Zolko wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:25 pm Do you realise how ridiculous it is what you're saying ?
FreeCAD is released under LGPL, so... maybe someday this will be truly owned by the community, this may happen, you never know ;-)

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Darek
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by dprojects »

NewJoker wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:35 pm But if someone has very little free space then he could just choose the minimum version.
This is not only about HDD capacity. It is also about running and start time and performance.
I am not sure if you played with workbenches but if you start loading Draft and other libraries the start time is about 20 seconds longer at my laptop.
Less soft by default is much quicker start. Blender starts much faster than FreeCAD, I think this should be good issue to re-think this "minimum" build.

Thanks
Darek
github.com/dprojects

workbench for woodworking is available at: github.com/dprojects/Woodworking
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NewJoker
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Re: [solved] FreeCAD has selection filters?

Post by NewJoker »

dprojects wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:41 pm FreeCAD is released under LGPL, so... maybe someday this will be truly owned by the community
For now, it seems that FreeCAD is moving further away from that - FPA, Ondsel...
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