[announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

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C_h_o_p_i_n
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by C_h_o_p_i_n »

Hi all,

from my point of view i like to mention, that "merging into" means to have one developement tree at the end - not two.

In my opnion - to achieve this - all commits should only be comitted into the toponaming branch or into both branches but never just to master.

Otherwise there will remain two versions what can't be in the interest of the FreeCad Comunity neither developers nor users.

Regards,
Stefan
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adrianinsaval
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by adrianinsaval »

C_h_o_p_i_n wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:12 am In my opnion - to achieve this - all commits should only be comitted into the toponaming branch or into both branches but never just to master.
the goal of the toponaming branch is to give a stable target for realthunder, if the commits from master where to be cherry picked there too the branch is useless as it will be a moving target just as master. So no backporting of master features to toponaming branch until everything is in if my understanding is correct, and once all of the toponaming code is accepted there will be a final merging of the toponaming branch onto master.
wsteffe wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:50 am
you are blowing things out of proportion and it is not productive so I would encourage you to keep your vitriol to yourself... do you have a suggestion to make or not? if you have then make that suggestion and move on, if not... what's the point of your rant?
uwestoehr wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:26 pm We had one dedicated technical and fruitful meeting. We found a consensus and will follow this.
I can invite you for the next meeting if you have technical insights.

It is important to move on and a proper documentation can matter as we discussed. This topic is too complex to discuss this linearly in a forum, therefore we met.
Ok I think there's no point in further discussing this without full context, I would like to know realthunder's response and what's the actual plan to follow, if there was consensus I assume it was deemed doable without causing absurd delays. Also from zolko's post I understand that it's not really about making this file "human readable" but about documenting how it should be parsed and written, this is a sane request... on the other hand going out of the way to make this file "more human readable" is not worth the trouble IMO.
C_h_o_p_i_n
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by C_h_o_p_i_n »

Hi,
adrianinsaval wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:17 pm
C_h_o_p_i_n wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:12 am In my opnion - to achieve this - all commits should only be comitted into the toponaming branch or into both branches but never just to master.
the goal of the toponaming branch is to give a stable target for realthunder, if the commits from master where to be cherry picked there too the branch is useless as it will be a moving target just as master. So no backporting of master features to toponaming branch until everything is in if my understanding is correct, and once all of the toponaming code is accepted there will be a final merging of the toponaming branch onto master.
What in see as a possible problem is, that master is changing so fast, that this "current" differs sometime soon too much from the "stable" version topnaming was migrated too, to again prevent an easy migration of topo naming into the current master.

Either toponaming-changes need to be backported - or - all other commits.

How in detail is this planned ?

Regards,
Stefan

PS: How about a 3rd tree where topo-naming and actual commits flow into - so the compatibility could be continously be checked / tested to facilitate the backporting.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by uwestoehr »

To all: as I wrote, we have now a plan to move on. How the merging will be done will be discussed and decided in a meeting that will take place after the documentation change and after bringing Toponaming to PartDesign. Especially before the latter has not been done, it is not sensible to discuss the merge procedure yet. Also realthunder as author knows best how much manpower will be necessary for what merge procedure.

So we are on track and since we are all volunteers and do it in a way we can do it (time-wise).
wsteffe
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by wsteffe »

adrianinsaval wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:17 pm what's the point of your rant?
I think that the exageration is to say that my post is full of rants or insults or anything similar, while, at the same time discarding the actual insults posted by user1234. As I already said it was just a plain fact reporting. And I think to have clearly demonstrated that what said was true. If you prefer to believe that the FC development activities are driven by technical and fruitful meetings with a large consensus let do it. I will stop here. I do not want to disturb anymore this idyllic development environment and I am looking forward to see the great results of this work.
adrianinsaval wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:17 pm if there was consensus I assume it was deemed doable without causing absurd delays
Oops!! It seems that even you are not fully convinced of such a large consesus.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by chrisb »

wsteffe wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:43 pm I think that the exageration is to say that my post is full of rants or insults or anything similar,
No rants or insults - perhaps. But it definitely contained "similar". Repeating that someone doesn't understand is insinuating, that he is not smart enough. And you sure know that saying to report only the facts can be at least impolite as well.

On the other hand I can well understand your opposition against limiting the discussion to a single meeting, especially when very important key players are not present. I can see nothing wrong with a "linear" discussion here, it sure is better than talking all at once in a meeting, isn't it? And some outcome of such a discussion can and should be respected in the next meeting then.
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wsteffe
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by wsteffe »

chrisb wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:56 pm Repeating that someone doesn't understand is insinuating, that he is not smart enough
Not at all. Misunderstandings are always possible when the communication is held in a foreign language. That has nothing to do with intelligence. An I didn't want to insinuate anything about smartness.

I wanted instead pinpoint the absurd and arrogant position of uwestoehr. He pretends that the conclusions reported in his minutes (which are supposed to rule next development acivities) are accepted by faith as it were the Mose tablets and that any discussion on that must be held within his consecrated circle (his self organized teleconferences accessible trough invitations).
The absurdity of this position is even more evident considering that, by his self admission, uwestoehr has not fully understood the technical arguments/positions expressed in the meeting and he had to correct his conclusions after a clarification made in this forum.
Nonetheless he is still advocating that such a complex matter (the toponaming issue) can not be dealt in a simple linear forum.
Isabel
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by Isabel »

I also find it rather strange that such meetings are not held publicly. It sends a repelling signal to possible developers rather than inviting and encouraging them.
FreeCAD is a community project, and the developers sure should belong to the community. I see this in danger, and I'm afraid that this holy circle prepares to commercialise FreeCAD. Money is always a good reason to keep the public out. Uwestoehr has shown in other context that he sees FreeCAD rather as his personal playground, and I can only hope that these separate meetings are not preparing something very unpleasant.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by chrisb »

I'm no friend either of this desocialization of the developers, but I see no danger yet. There are developers which I rate as highly trustworthy. As long as they are on board, FreeCAD will remain open source.
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Re: [announcement] first version of Toponaming is ready for testing

Post by jnxd »

Isabel wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:14 am I also find it rather strange that such meetings are not held publicly. It sends a repelling signal to possible developers rather than inviting and encouraging them.
FreeCAD is a community project, and the developers sure should belong to the community. I see this in danger, and I'm afraid that this holy circle prepares to commercialise FreeCAD. Money is always a good reason to keep the public out. Uwestoehr has shown in other context that he sees FreeCAD rather as his personal playground, and I can only hope that these separate meetings are not preparing something very unpleasant.
I take serious offense with these words, Isabel. The meetings are not private for nefarious reasons, but to ensure smooth workings. There are times when text communication with the community can help, and there are times when we need real-time verbal communication between a subset of people who have spent hours mulling over the inner workings, or running tests to find flaws.

Firstly, while this project is for the community, us developers do NOT "belong" to the community. We are individuals in our own right and any development we do is based on our own plans and available time. For sure we may be working for money, but even in that case, there is always the possibility to refuse work, sometimes at dire costs.

This "holy circle" that you mentioned was by no means closed to the public. @chennes had already posted invitation to any people willing to join the meeting in the blog. If you believe you have enough to add, please join the next meeting by any means.

Rest assured that we have no interest, or indeed the ability (because the copyright of code remains spread so wide), to "commercialize" FreeCAD (by which I understand you mean making it proprietary). The community is an important part of FreeCAD, and that will remain true for the foreseeable future. If by "commercialize" you mean that we will only work for money (which I assure most people are not doing; there are many other alternatives where we would be working otherwise), that may be a case because of need to sustain an income, not to steal FreeCAD.

As for @uwestoehr, let me assure you that whatever arrogance of his might have come forth, it is not because of nefarious reasons. He does a very important job of maintaining the code, and a level of asymmetric authority does come with that role. However, this does not mean he wants to make it his personal project. The correct action against him was calling out that his actions were not acceptable to the general public, and he has humbly apologized for that.

(Sorry for going off-topic. This is all I will say about the allegation in this thread. Feel free to make another thread elsewhere if anyone wishes to continue.)
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