Idea for the main window

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Hologram
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by Hologram »

@user1234 there are many different variants and interpretations of a ribbon. They don't have to be 3 icons high, they can be 1 or 2 high as well. They can be expandable and collapsible too (focus mode). You may even be able to expand the ribbon only there where you need the additional toolset, e.g. in the sketcher or draft workbench where there are a lot of tools to choose from. Have a look here at how Microsoft Word changed its ribbon throughout the years and you'll see it certainly isn't a static thing: https://www.addbalance.com/word/ribbons.htm

In addition, if the ribbon tabs could be used to switch workbenches it helps UI interaction (dropdowns are the worst imo > click, move mouse and read > click again > move mouse back to where you were). For instance, Fusion 360 made it so that if you switch to the Surface tab, if you click a face and hit delete, it deletes this face only. In the solid tab, if you delete, it will delete the entire body. I think that this could be well worth exploring in conjunction with switching workbenches.

But to each their own preference of course ;)

E: I for one would welcome the ribbon as it makes it easier to locate tools based on their grouping (when done well). I'm sure the same goes for most new users. Power users, also in Autocad, preferred the smaller toolbutton based workspace.
grd
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by grd »

Hologram wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:31 am @user1234 there are many different variants and interpretations of a ribbon. They don't have to be 3 icons high, they can be 1 or 2 high as well. They can be expandable and collapsible too (focus mode). You may even be able to expand the ribbon only there where you need the additional toolset, e.g. in the sketcher or draft workbench where there are a lot of tools to choose from. Have a look here at how Microsoft Word changed its ribbon throughout the years and you'll see it certainly isn't a static thing: https://www.addbalance.com/word/ribbons.htm
Wow! Note that I am not a fan of M$ but they made it quite good. Now about the ribbon bar that I am talking about. They made it working for all platforms, so I think that is works. I don't know for sure, I only compiled it but I think so.
In addition, if the ribbon tabs could be used to switch workbenches it helps UI interaction (dropdowns are the worst imo > click, move mouse and read > click again > move mouse back to where you were). For instance, Fusion 360 made it so that if you switch to the Surface tab, if you click a face and hit delete, it deletes this face only. In the solid tab, if you delete, it will delete the entire body. I think that this could be well worth exploring in conjunction with switching workbenches.
I don't know F360 and I don't want to know to be honest, but I worked with SW and NX and in both they worked quite good. Recently I also downloaded the free version of SolidEdge and I am impressed about that too. The only problem that they have is of course that it is only working on Windows....

But on the subject of @user1234 about the number of icons, I think that we can reduce them quite a bit when PD finally use a sketch and then you decide which direction you want to go, so if it goes one side then it becomes an addition and the other side then it becomes a removal. I think that is the direction to go.
But to each their own preference of course ;)

E: I for one would welcome the ribbon as it makes it easier to locate tools based on their grouping (when done well). I'm sure the same goes for most new users. Power users, also in Autocad, preferred the smaller toolbutton based workspace.
I agree that this idea is mostly based for new users to get more familiar with FC. It's only that getting used to it makes you more addicted ;)

I think that having a cross platform ribbon bar is quite good for FC, but don't get too excited.
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user1234
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by user1234 »

grd wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:55 am Wow! Note that I am not a fan of M$ but they made it quite good.
Really? The ribbon bar from MS software is in my opinion the worst, never saw something unintuitive and random with a dice sorted gui.


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grd
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by grd »

user1234 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:59 pm Really? The ribbon bar from MS software is in my opinion the worst, never saw something unintuitive and random with a dice sorted gui.
That is your opinion.
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adrianinsaval
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by adrianinsaval »

Haven't through the whole thread, this has been brought up many times, IMO if this is done it would be best to do it a la libreoffice, they offer a ribbon interface, compressed ribbon and classic toolbars, everyone can be happy. Of course, this is probably harder to maintain.
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onekk
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by onekk »

As I don't use Windows many times, if this is the incarnation of a ribbon bar, probably it is more invasive to implement it in FreeCAD.

As each menu item will trigger a different "toolbar reorganisation".

Some question came into my mind:

- With a ribbon bar concept every WB should have an added menu item that will activate his "ribbon bar" when pressed?
- There will be some fixed toolbar, as the view toolbar to switch views, that are "fixed" so an user find them always in one place, or some of them should be moved in the MdiWindows, this will mean to reduce the real estate space for the "3d window", that is something that many "modern UI" want to avoid
- How this wil impact in coding, and existing WB as it seems not a "little change" but will affect "main menu behaviour"?

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Hologram
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by Hologram »

adrianinsaval wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:39 pm Haven't through the whole thread, this has been brought up many times, IMO if this is done it would be best to do it a la libreoffice, they offer a ribbon interface, compressed ribbon and classic toolbars, everyone can be happy. Of course, this is probably harder to maintain.
MS Word does have that too, so do Autodesk Ribbons. You usually have 3 states, collapsed, small ribbon and expanded ribbons. And that's probably also the best direction for FreeCAD (and keep the classic toolbar layout for today's power users).

As much as everyone likes Blender's interface, it's one of the few pieces of software with no real button toolbars. So that's difficult to reference (I personally dislike shoving buttons in dockable windows instead, but in Blender it works surprisingly well apart from ocassional disconnected stray buttons).
Hologram
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by Hologram »

Also worth considering: for people who use hotkeys instead of the interface, an icon only interface can be alienating. I often have to watch lots of tooltips to see which button I need if the software doesn't have a commandline interface/ command search function that I can use instead. If you barely ever use the icon buttons, it helps to have some padding and indicative text as to what is what. That to me is the power of a ribbon over long rows of toolbuttons. You may need to do some menu digging, but it's usually easier to find what you are looking for, provided the grouping of everything is sensibly laid out with proper headers and other pointers.
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by grd »

onekk wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:10 pm - With a ribbon bar concept every WB should have an added menu item that will activate his "ribbon bar" when pressed?
What do you think? Just look at every modern commercial software and you are gonna find out.
- There will be some fixed toolbar, as the view toolbar to switch views, that are "fixed" so an user find them always in one place, or some of them should be moved in the MdiWindows, this will mean to reduce the real estate space for the "3d window", that is something that many "modern UI" want to avoid
Pfff, I don't know yet.
- How this wil impact in coding, and existing WB as it seems not a "little change" but will affect "main menu behaviour"?
Again, I don't know yet since not one line of code has been written.

But if this comes to life then yes, this is gonna cause quite a bit of troubles. I don't mind. But this is gonna be optional, that is for sure. And of course also very well documented.
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obelisk79
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Re: Idea for the main window

Post by obelisk79 »

@grd I do think writing an addon, at least initially, will be the best way to test the general acceptance of something like this.

I came across this yesterday after I first saw this topic and thought it might be useful for a python addon: https://github.com/haiiliin/pyqtribbon/
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