[Discussion] Coincident vs Point on Object

[onekk]

Most of the time, if you want to give a line a vertical or horizontal constraint, it's already positioned in a way that makes it easy for the solver to detect whether it's supposed to be one or the other. Same with parallel/perpendicular and width/height.

This is reasonable as for horizontal and vertical constraints, an abstraction of "parallel to axis" should be derived quite easily, but this would lead following the originating discussion topic to "join it to the parallel" constraint, that is a different thing.

The problem IMHO is:

What is the purpose to join the two tools:

1. less crowded interface ?
2. less click to create a valid sketch?
3. make FC more easy for new users?
4. make FC more easy for users coming from software XXX?

I could prefer as order of precedence 2,3,1,4 other would prefer another order of precedence.

But make clear deleting one button that is replaced by a "dropdown list" or a "dialog window" will not "reduce complexity" for sure, and even adding some intelligence to make "solver to select the right constraint", as some user almost surely will complain that the "solver is guessing wrong".

Regards

Carlo D.

[adrianinsaval]

I agree that simply putting them into dropdowns wouldn't be an improvement. Less icons is nice, but if it means you need two clicks instead of one, it defeats the purpose.

please check how the combined radius/diameter constraint works, the dropdown is only used when you want to use one of them specifically, the combined tool is available with a single click

[pathfinder]

The problem IMHO is:

What is the purpose to join the two tools:

1. less crowded interface ?
2. less click to create a valid sketch?
3. make FC more easy for new users?
4. make FC more easy for users coming from software XXX?

This is the core question.

Here's the thing, and I know this maybe is kind of a naive perspective to have:

The less I have to think about things and the more the computer thinks for me, the better.

This is my personal, highly subjective perspective:
I use shortcuts a lot. I rarely use buttons, unless it's a tool I don't use often enough to remember the shortcut, it's a tool that requires multiple inputs or where the shortcut has conflicts. Some points from my perspective:

1. less clicks indeed.
2. Less crowded interface indeed.
3. When I have to search for a tool I don't use as often, I don't have as many icons to sift through.
4. I don't have to remember as many shortcuts because now, e.g. O and C refer to one tool.
5. Shortcuts in Sketcher are already totally overcrowded, with some even having multiple effects. Consolidating them more would free up some of them. And even if you don't want to restructure Shortcuts again, at least you now have to remember fewer of them.
6. I also think that it's easier for beginners, but I generally think that beginners don't stay beginners forever, so a design decision should not focus on that. Having said that, I think using autodetect constraints is in fact a way to ramp up complexity, rather than throwing it at someone new all at once. You'll learn about the difference between a point and object constraint when you need it, instead of right away.
7. Also, a lot of the time (and I think this is one of them) a more convenient solution is also a more beginner-friendly solution.

I think in the end, the most important group to care about is the regular user. The beginners and the people coming from different software are temporary and if FreeCAD is compelling, they'll eventually become regular users. And as regular users, they wouldn't want to live with limitations set in place to help others ease in. That's my perspective on the matter.

I agree that simply putting them into dropdowns wouldn't be an improvement. Less icons is nice, but if it means you need two clicks instead of one, it defeats the purpose.

please check how the combined radius/diameter constraint works, the dropdown is only used when you want to use one of them specifically, the combined tool is available with a single click

I'm aware. Not sure what you think I was implying here? Maybe check my previous posts in this thread for context.