TreeView --> rename should be relabel

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bernd
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TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by bernd »

If in TreeBrowser right click on an object there is a menu entry rename, but this does not rename the object it relabels. We should distinguish between the label and the name. If not we will get confusions any time.

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triplus
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by triplus »

Yes this i guess is one of those things that are not easy to change. That is Label instead of Name was selected for the property name in the past and this can't be easily changed. But at least we can say rename the label or rename the tree item and that does still make sense. ;)

P.S. Relabel instead of rename. I don't know i guess we must first decide if we actually do label or instead we name the tree view items (regardless of the property name used).
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by wmayer »

We should distinguish between the label and the name. If not we will get confusions any time.
Theoretically you are right but practically from a normal user point of view he doesn't (need to) know the difference between what we internally call Name or Label.
And if you look at any kind of file browsers you will see that the menu entry always is "Rename" and never (at least I have never seen it) "Relabel". And IMO it's more important to be consistent to something 100% of users already know than introducing slightly different wording that would be rather confusing for an average user.
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by triplus »

wmayer wrote:
We should distinguish between the label and the name. If not we will get confusions any time.
Theoretically you are right but practically from a normal user point of view he doesn't (need to) know the difference between what we internally call Name or Label.
And if you look at any kind of file browsers you will see that the menu entry always is "Rename" and never (at least I have never seen it) "Relabel". And IMO it's more important to be consistent to something 100% of users already know than introducing slightly different wording that would be rather confusing for an average user.
I agree with this and rename feels more appropriate to me. But @bernd still has a point as the user exposed property for name was named Label instead of the term Name. That is i guess the thing what triggered this discussion. Renaming the object in tree view will change the property Label in property view. ;)

P.S. Ideally i guess renaming the object in tree view would change the property Name (not Label) in the property view. But then "internal name" i guess couldn't be named name anymore. ;)
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bernd
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by bernd »

@werner: I knew you would come up with a answer which explains the reason. I agree with this.

One hint: I would be good to include the name as read only property in the Property Editor. This way it is easy to show the difference to any interested user.

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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by triplus »

bernd wrote:One hint: I would be good to include the name as read only property in the Property Editor. This way it is easy to show the difference to any interested user.
Likely not as average user doesn't care or/and finds no value in it. And as renaming the tree view item wouldn't change the Name property that would lead to further confusion. Improvement could be achieved only if Label property would be renamed to Name. But that won't happen.

Or to explore the possibility of having a system that would allow to change the user exposed property terminology to just about anything. As some property names are really not all that optimal ATM. Such system could i guess make user interaction better but it would put more stress and confusion on developers and users using the python console.
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bernd
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by bernd »

I really like the system as it is. We've got a name and a label it is straight forward. The only confusion which happens again and again is people do not know there is a name and a label and they think the label is the name because the name is not seen no anywhere. That is why I think it would be clearly if the PropertyEditor would show the label and the read only name. But I might be wrong.

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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by triplus »

bernd wrote:I really like the system as it is.
It's not bad but if you look at some of the property names. They are not suitable for the average user. It's sometimes developer talk propagated to the UX. And once the property is introduced you can't do much about the terminology anymore regardless of the fact if it is optimal or not.
We've got a name and a label it is straight forward. The only confusion which happens again and again is people do not know there is a name and a label and they think the label is the name because the name is not seen no anywhere. That is why I think it would be clearly if the PropertyEditor would show the label and the read only name. But I might be wrong.

bernd
You are not wrong and i guess there isn't a straightforward solution. I see potential value in exposing the Name property to the UX but as for potential user confusion around name/label situation i am not sure if confusion will increase or drop.
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by wmayer »

The only confusion which happens again and again is people do not know there is a name and a label and they think the label is the name because the name is not seen no anywhere.
But in which situation should this be relevant for a GUI user? It's only interesting for programmers.
That is why I think it would be clearly if the PropertyEditor would show the label and the read only name. But I might be wrong.
The only problem is that the name is a normal class member and not a property. I have to check if there is an easy way without too much special handling.
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Re: TreeView --> rename should be relabel

Post by bernd »

wmayer wrote:
The only confusion which happens again and again is people do not know there is a name and a label and they think the label is the name because the name is not seen no anywhere.
But in which situation should this be relevant for a GUI user? It's only interesting for programmers.
We had it a few times in FEM. FEM uses external software CalculiX, Z88, GMSH and may be more in the future. FEM uses mesh formats, mostly unv. All this programs communicate by text files. We use in the text files the object names not the object labels to be sure to not run into trouble. People who do work with the text files or change the text files or use the text files in another FEM related software change the label of FEM objects and think the label changes in the text file but it does not because we use the name instead. Last related topic: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18829 but it has been asked before.

bernd
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