[UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

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Haavard
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by Haavard »

The screenshots are not in any way what i think the end result should be, just a quick demonstration to get the point across.

If the "Simple" layout could only contain a single line of toolbar icons on a 1080p screen, that would be preferable IMHO. Save, open and measure should be present, but hopefully the measure tool could be shrinked from 7 icons down to one (manipulator/assy4 measure tool perhaps?).
drmacro
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by drmacro »

Haavard wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:07 pm The screenshots are not in any way what i think the end result should be, just a quick demonstration to get the point across.

If the "Simple" layout could only contain a single line of toolbar icons on a 1080p screen, that would be preferable IMHO. Save, open and measure should be present, but hopefully the measure tool could be shrinked from 7 icons down to one (manipulator/assy4 measure tool perhaps?).
The layout has to look at what workbenches are activated. A single bar for all active workbenches may be completely unusable.

And, yes, that's why I phrased it: "one or more of the measure tools" since the 7 are, AFAICS, not considered very comprehensive. IMO, manipulator and A4 messure tools should be considered.
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drmacro
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by drmacro »

I wanted to make some further comments...some thinking out loud as well.

I think the idea of he "getting started" wizard is a good idea. But I think some thought needs to be done with what the overall user experience should be.

Are the three levels (or more, maybe application specific, like Architecture, Electrical (i.e. KiCAD Stepup), etc. ) to be somewhat comprehensive? For example each having a limited set of workbenches targeted at those tasks.

Are the configurations going to remain with the default color schemes and panel layouts? Only default toolbar (i.e.no customization and nothing added to the global toolbar). Or even default icons?

If the wizard is not going to tackle some of the complaints about the default, to what extent is it limited to?

As a starting point maybe we can agree what workbenches (and possible customizations of their toolbars) should be available for each of three levels.

Also, maybe agree on toolbar layout, for each workbench, of common bars like File, Workbench, Navigation, Structure?

One thing that needs to be thought about: How will these changes impact the body of documentation and tutorial material that will now look different that what the wizard provides.
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onekk
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by onekk »

Hello.

The idea is good, as there is a "Skip button" that permit to personalize further the interface, or some settings in preferences were a "stock FC appearance" could be obtained.

This way, some problems like those related to "existing documentation" and tutorials could be avoided, maybe with some warning typed when accessing the "getting Started" wizard.

Speaking of activating some WB based on the "type of work" a user is "needing" I think that some "subjective" bias has to be taken in account, as probably there will be "tons of reason" by some users to have this and not that, as it depends on what workflow the user is "comfortable with" or "has learned".

So I advance no preference about what and how much WB must contain each "flavours".

Speaking of colors, and UI appearance, something is simply a "matter of taste" provided that something strange is not happening like some "preference pack" color is not hiding or make unreadable some part of the interface. A recent post in another Thread has shown that a simple change of background color of the 3d view could make some part of the UI unreadable when using a WB as chosen "background color" was "too near" to a Sketcher (If I remember well) "line color" used to draw some lines.

Every simplification and "guidance" toward "new users" is welcome, provided it is "carefully taylored" and "reversible" with few clicks. (This should avoid complications if something strange will arise).

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Carlo D.
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drmacro
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by drmacro »

onekk wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:30 pm Hello.

The idea is good, as there is a "Skip button" that permit to personalize further the interface, or some settings in preferences were a "stock FC appearance" could be obtained.

...
"Warning: Please use the Skip button if you intend to use existing documentation or tutorials."

Not exactly a good first impression on a new user if you ask me... :roll:
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onekk
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by onekk »

drmacro wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:37 pm "Warning: Please use the Skip button if you intend to use existing documentation or tutorials."

Not exactly a good first impression on a new user if you ask me... :roll:
Agreed, but it is you that have considered the impact of a different interface by a "new user" point of view. :D

This proposal has as a side effect to increment the level of complexity for "totally beginners" so probably some caveats are needed, or at least a quick way to revert things, have to be supplied.

As you surely know frequenting this forum, that is not uncommon to see users that complains having tried to follow a tutorial made for FC0.17 with a 0.20.1 version.

I'm not against the proposal, but this genre of things, that have proven to happen almost daily here have to be taken in account.

Regards

Carlo D.
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- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
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drmacro
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by drmacro »

onekk wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:59 pm ...
The point is, taking the minimal route to implementing this "Wizard" would be creating three options that offer a limited workbench list based on some definition of beginner, intermediate, and advanced; providing little in the way of improved perception of the UI...because it essentially is the existing UI.

Or, make the effort to attempt to provide a more pleasing UI (and UX experience with thoughtful organization) by looking at the UI as a whole (rather than the result of 20 years of organic evolution) and actually try for at least some level of facelift.

The later needs somewhat more time and forethought before whipping out a wizard.

TBH, I'd recommend the later. Get a few people who have interest to propose and implement and see what comes of it. And, yes, I would think 3 or 4, some with an eye to the looks of the UI and some with capabilities to handle the implementation would suffice. In other words not a vast committee.

The later, of course, does create the problem of a UI that does not look like the wiki and many tutorials.
But, maybe this is a good problem... :mrgreen:
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onekk
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by onekk »

drmacro wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:54 pm The later, of course, does create the problem of a UI that does not look like the wiki and many tutorials.
But, maybe this is a good problem... :mrgreen:
Good problem.

Interesting definition, I could catch the point, but probably there will be some needs to enroll some more people to rewrite many documents.

But as a side effect many bad youtube tutorials will be total unuseful.

Regards

Carlo D.
GitHub page: https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
- Learning how to model with scripting.
- Various other stuffs.

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obelisk79
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by obelisk79 »

Ok, so there's a lot to unpack here.

1. I think a wizard is a good idea
2. Agree that there needs to be some kind of organization/beautification done to the UI through existing means
3. Tutorials and documentation should follow, or just updated with new appropriate screenshots (I have other opinions on this but not a part of this topic)

I think all can be done during this development cycle considering that it is expected that TNP being integrated will take quite a long time and the parties directly involved with that shouldn't be impacted by this as a concurrent effort. If the next official release milestone will be 1.0 this would make for a better reception by the many who will likely come to try out FreeCAD because in their minds 1.0 will signify that it's ready to compete with commercial offerings (regardless if those in charge have interest in competing with those other CAD packages or not).
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TeslaCoil
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Re: [UX] FreeCAD getting started wizard

Post by TeslaCoil »

'Wizards' are an interesting idea, but I'm not certain the FreeCAD UI can be rescued without a more radical approach. By reducing the complexity of the interface, we run into a problem: We turn a complex tool into a simpler one; but in doing so, don't we end up changing the tool completely?

In other words: Playing a real guitar is more complex than playing 'Guitar Hero'. Yet, sadly, the progressive simplification of the traditional guitar until it becomes 'Guitar Hero' is a gradual demolition of what the guitar is.

I feel there is a similar risk here with the simplification of FreeCAD.

That said, I feel the FreeCAD UI needs some attention. Blender has made some impressive changes in the direction of improved usability for the beginner, without sacrificing complexity. It can be done.

Personally, I feel that de-cluttering the FreeCAD UI might be the first step. The problem here is that someone likely needs to step in and make bold changes that bridge the beginner's needs with the programmer's mindset.

In my experience, many of the attributes that make a great programmer tend to distance the programmer from the average user. As a part-time programmer myself, but coming predominantly from the more haphazard world of street art and punk bands, I can see how rare it is that those who write software also anticipate the mindset of those who simply want to use it.

For this reason, I feel that the way to make FreeCAD more accessible is for a renegade group of hacker-artists to revamp the UI as a fringe project and then present it here. Expecting the core team to solve this problem is probably not going to work.

Not because the programmers of FreeCAD are not excellent at what they do; but because what they do inherently makes it hard for them to relate to the needs of those who do not share their technical brilliance.
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