[ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

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carlopav
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by carlopav »

@paullee, thanks for the explanation by PM, Basically yes, even if I didn't consider the Addition and Subtraction properties... of course if you derive the Site from a BuildingPart you won't have those properties anymore, and this could be a problem for backward compatibility (? maybe not ?).

yorik wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:19 am Then a first thing we could do is change the Site to a non-shape object (basically, we could derive it from BuildingPart too), but keep its Terrain property. I think most of the functionality will still work, but there is a system of additions/subtractions we need to look at first (it might need to be moved to some external structure).
probably yes... and maybe the additions - subtraction could be left to the shape object? I can imagine it could be used to subtract the basement of the building for example.
About the several shapes: That's needed somehow in the future, but not only for sites but for all BIM objects. So I would wait until we come up with a solid idea that can be used everywhere
You are right... and it's not an easy task to accompish without ending with an overcrowded tree structure...

EDIT: But wait :idea: , what am I writing (!?): an IfcSite have a shape representation, so it is consistent with other objects that in IFC have a representation context... so it's good that an ArchSite have a Shape :? probably better to leave it like it is... ?
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yorik
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by yorik »

carlopav wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:05 pm EDIT: But wait :idea: , what am I writing (!?): an IfcSite have a shape representation, so it is consistent with other objects that in IFC have a representation context... so it's good that an ArchSite have a Shape :? probably better to leave it like it is... ?
:D It's never very easy to decide what to do...
carlopav
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by carlopav »

Indeed!
follow my experiments on BIM modelling for architecture design
Natll
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by Natll »

yorik wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:01 pm
carlopav wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:05 pm EDIT: But wait :idea: , what am I writing (!?): an IfcSite have a shape representation, so it is consistent with other objects that in IFC have a representation context... so it's good that an ArchSite have a Shape :? probably better to leave it like it is... ?
:D It's never very easy to decide what to do...
Hello Yorik and big thanks to you and to all FC team for all what you do to bring us Freecad, that I found really intersting software concept, in native parametric modelling solution per various industry fields and the chance to place all these tools in interaction and available side by sibe. So " FreeCAD is an avant-guard app" at least for me.

I'm very new to FreeCAD, and I just start to learn it (0.19v). I came from ArchiCAD background with modest 20yrs of xp in Architectural and interior design field.

When I started testing and looking mainly into Arch/BIM workbenches of FC, i found that most of tools are perfect by itself. But as you know in the BIM world the most important is the way that various data is made, structured and stored, because the right project's tree might allow the right interpolability to all stakeholders in the various phases of the project.

In AC forexample when you open a file you'll find a very strong basic hierarchical tree that allows to manage with some comfort all the work; like pre and post modeling spaces, organization zone (managers: layers and their combinations / views based on these combinations, display variants for each phase of the project ...), The presentation and publishing area etc. Technically FreeCAD could do all these tasks easily and maybe much better than any CAD or/and BIM software! But in terms of BIM, the organization of tools in a hierarchical tree must be done to boost the workflow and exchanging the Architectural project data with the concerned professions correctly, along the way.

Let's get back to the topic, which is part of what is said above about the Arch_Site tool, I think the best solution is having a role of "a container for modeling 2d/3d terrain and exterior urbanistic elements and civil engineering VRD" operated by the tasks tab. This favors to topographers and various tech studies offices to work separately and simultaneously over the same project mass without affecting its architectural development (and whynot a shared project mode). So in my opinion this tool could work in parallel without necessarily containing the building itself and its components (slabs, walls, roof) and why not a visibility of the building as bounding box once into the "Site container".
Maybe on the tasks tab we can find (surface tools / convert many surfaces into solid volume with Boolean and sketching operations).

So what I can imagine so far by starting BIM project in FC, is the working tree as follows:

Title of the file> with main sections that works in parralel:
1-Project >
+1.1- Site >
++1.1.a- Project's environment: Terrain and 3d Topography
++1.1.b- Exterior urbanistic or rural components

+1.2- Building >
++1.2.a- "Floors" (stories)>
+++1.2.a./ Various architectural and interiors components
++1.2.b- building mass components: pool, gaden, sport corner...

+1.3-Composite structure: to visualize in 2D as hatching / 3D as much as material used in each Arc solid element which will facilitate the display and reduce the layout working time in the TechDraw workbench as well as the transmission of BIM data will be more complete.

+1.4- Views manager: Based on layers, groups, links and styles combinaisons. (I think this manager and Composite Structure in previous point are not made yet in FC, but they're very elementary for BIM work).

+1.5- Working sheets: This could be made as Group folder where to store all imported or external data, also temporary draft.

2-Planner; I still have no idea if this is possible in FreeCAD.

3-Schedule Tabs for quantify the the BIM components by its Id, Tag, Alias...
%

Thanks everyone for reading and please correct/edit any idea in the arborescent above. I'm still learning but I believe that FC is strong enough to achieve properly any required tasks in BIM field.
paullee
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by paullee »

Welcome! Good to have peoples with lot of experience on Arch/BIM :)

Have you found and looked into the External Add-on BIM Workbench? There are management tools some of which seems partly answered your needs ? I haven't used those tools personally so can't tell.

And maybe you can help showcasing a model with desirable structure and see what tools may be developed to assist?

BTW, you may need to open a new topic to allow more follow-up discussion.
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yorik
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by yorik »

welcome!
yes, this goes along the same idea we have here.. basically the site should allow for a much larger array of uses. So it should really behave as a container, and allow to do all kinds of operations you need inside: import meshes or point clouds, model your terrain, add/subtract volumes of earth, etc. but all these operations could be contained inside the site, not be the site itself. I think this could make things a lot clearer
Natll
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by Natll »

paullee wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:04 pm Welcome! Good to have peoples with lot of experience on Arch/BIM :)

Have you found and looked into the External Add-on BIM Workbench? There are management tools some of which seems partly answered your needs ? I haven't used those tools personally so can't tell.

And maybe you can help showcasing a model with desirable structure and see what tools may be developed to assist?

BTW, you may need to open a new topic to allow more follow-up discussion.

Hi paullee, thanks for welcoming me. The BIM Workbench looks very intersting, I'm discovering it and learning its tools, in same time I'm trying to create maybe somekind of "model file" to show it up later. Mostly as new topic.
Natll
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by Natll »

yorik wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:39 am welcome!
yes, this goes along the same idea we have here.. basically the site should allow for a much larger array of uses. So it should really behave as a container, and allow to do all kinds of operations you need inside: import meshes or point clouds, model your terrain, add/subtract volumes of earth, etc. but all these operations could be contained inside the site, not be the site itself. I think this could make things a lot clearer
Thanks Yorik for your welcoming. The idea of having Arch_Site as a container with all mentioned tools above sounds really great. I don't know if it's possible to convert the modeled 3d terrrain into a solid object, to be able to operate the quantities of the earthwork later.
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Re: [ Solved ] When does an Arch_Site have a Shape?

Post by yorik »

Natll wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 am I don't know if it's possible to convert the modeled 3d terrrain into a solid object, to be able to operate the quantities of the earthwork later.
It depends much on the quality of your original mesh... But usually yes, it's just a matter of extruding its border down the Z axis, and closing with a bottom face. The current Site object does it. it should just be separated into an additional structure..
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