about today's huge auto change

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berniev
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by berniev »

wandererfan wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:29 am Ahh, memories. I said most of these things 40 years ago in my first job after university
And you did this for the next 40 years? I bet not.
I'm not a big fan of "format" changes because there is almost a certainty of introducing hard to find errors,
You seem to misunderstand. Format doesn't change code operation, esp C++ is very flexible. Also, perhaps formatting tools are way better than when you had bad experience.
Such is the lot of a maintenance programmer.
Difference is FC is in development, not yet put out to pasture in maintainance mode. There is much work to come.
berniev
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by berniev »

chrisb wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:55 pm Brave doesn't seem to be connected with with one of the big companies.
In browsser market share terms at Aug 22. Brave is not listed so must presumably is part of "other" 0.04%. I had it on my machine for years but didn't like it at all. Long since deleted.
berniev
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by berniev »

uwestoehr wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:57 pm Sorry, I cannot follow you. How can you judge the UI "crap" (I don't like words like this, given the countless hours many volunteers spent) without knowing what it is for?
With respect, it was clearly written as an opinion felt at the time. It turns out many, many, others have faced a similar first experience with UI/UX. In fact I think it is probably the #1 criticism of FC.
uwestoehr wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:57 pmAnd how can you judge at all how good/bad code it by saying you don't know what it is for.
As an experienced programmer, you surely know better.
It does not actually improve tghe readability
Really? You must have some massochism:

Code: Select all

std::map<std::string, std::string>::const_iterator ht = config.find("HiddenDockWindow");
is more readable than

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auto ht = config.find("HiddenDockWindow");
and the old code seems uses as few spaces as possible, add all the other issues ... and multiply this by thousands, it's way, way, more mentally taxing to read than necessary.
I am currently responsible for the backports and fear merge conflicts
Fair enough. But rather than block master for a year or two, what can be done to make this more efficient? Is it all down to you? Do you need help? Can the process be changed? Are these backports really so critical or important that they block development in master? Is it a wise use of your precious resources? Is it wise to try to please all the people all the time?
don't forget our goal for the next major release - toponaming
I understand that after three years in the wilderness, this code is to be merged. And that it comes with a whole bunch of other changes/improvements that make realthunder's fork so popular. I understand that he solved the one major problem that no-one here could (or would), but for whatever reason it was not accepted. I suspect some politics but have no idea. Now its going to be merged. Once again though, do you hold back master for an unknown time frame while this happens? I'm sure you guys thought this through when the decision was made. It has been on the back of my mind that loads of changes might be an issue, but hey, there's been a bunch of multi-line and multi-file modernization commits other than mine without drama. How will this merge be done. Is it staged to minimise the complexity? Do you need help? Can I help? Not that I've done a lot of merging.
I agree with all of that
Thank you. Is that to say you disagree with the other six points?

Code: Select all

I was only wondering why we need to invest manpower to change existing definitions
Its mainly my time. I don't mind spending hours and hours on this. My previous 30 or so commits went smoothly, with only a couple of minor hiccups. On this occasion the review process went awry. Nothing of consquence was found wrong with the code.

Going back to the beginning ..
I am not opposed, but want to have a discussion if we want to go this way.
Cool, so can we find a way to get on with it?
openBrain
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by openBrain »

berniev wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:17 pm
openBrain wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:56 am Use Brave browser
I like what Apple is doing. It is the way of the future. Keep messrs google and facebook out.
My bad. I had understood privacy is a concern for you. ;)

Back to the main topic, I don't know where your current rant/frustration comes from, but IMO you should take a fresh breath regarding all this.
Insulting current codebase or UI will certainly not help others committing to your current effort to modernize the code. ;)
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uwestoehr
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by uwestoehr »

berniev wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:07 am It turns out many, many, others have faced a similar first experience with UI/UX. In fact I think it is probably the #1 criticism of FC.
Then please send PRs to improve the situation. Start discussions to find better solutions etc. Complaining is OK - when it is constructive criticism. ;)
berniev wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:07 am
uwestoehr wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:57 pmAnd how can you judge at all how good/bad code it by saying you don't know what it is for.
As an experienced programmer, you surely know better.
This does not answer my question. You state you don't know what code is for but know it is "crap" or not. This is a harsh word. You cannot tell e.g. Chrysler "I have no clue what is actually going under the hood, but your motor is not good engineering".
Of course code can be improved always like every engine can be improved. However, a general judgement is impossible and only by investigating how and where to improve one will succeed.
berniev wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:07 am

Code: Select all

std::map<std::string, std::string>::const_iterator ht = config.find("HiddenDockWindow");
is more readable than

Code: Select all

auto ht = config.find("HiddenDockWindow");
Yes - when you don't have an IDE. You see immediately that the meaningless variable "ht" is a map.
berniev wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:07 amHow will this merge be done. Is it staged to minimise the complexity? Do you need help? Can I help? Not that I've done a lot of merging.
Yes! Please checkout our toponaming branch and review it. If you have code improvements they should go in there. We need help to review the many changes in this branch.
I am at the moment waiting at a final go from @realthunder and then we will issue the first release of the branch to get feedback from our community. Then bit by bit the branch should be polished meaning bugs to be fixed, code improved and simplified, comments added to make the code better understandable etc.
That is what i meant with we need the manpower currently at other places.
Again, your changes are not bad, I only want to get the focus in another direction to use our manpower as effective as possible.

Let's maybe have a video call. Please send me a private message vie the forum if yes. I think this would be best - avoids misunderstandings and long texts :)
berniev wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:07 am Its mainly my time. I don't mind spending hours and hours on this.
Sure and as I wrote am happy we have you. I think you understand that a discussion on what to work helps the whole project. I think all here agree that the toponaming branch needs currently the most attention and every spare time hour anybody can invest will help FreeCAD a lot.
berniev
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by berniev »

uwestoehr wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:06 pm Then please send PRs to improve the situation. Start discussions to find better solutions etc. Complaining is OK - when it is constructive criticism. ;)
Thanks.

Since 30 Jul when wmayer suggested a plan https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/6819 I've been busting my balls writing PRs, over 15000 changes merged.
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uwestoehr
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by uwestoehr »

berniev wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:13 am Since 30 Jul when wmayer suggested a plan https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/6819 I've been busting my balls writing PRs, over 15000 changes merged.
It is not easy to follow you. You busted your balls? I hope you are OK meanwhile.

However, your complaint here was about the UI. My statement what that our UI can of course always be improved. But at first the issues have to be identified, then discussed with a PR. Therefore one should not call the UI it "crap" but help to improve the situation.
berniev
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by berniev »

uwestoehr wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:52 am It is not easy to follow you. You busted your balls? I hope you are OK meanwhile.
Maybe that's not an expression in Germany. Means worked very hard. Maybe you already know this.
However, your complaint here was about the UI
Actually, my difficulty was with a code review.
not call the UI it "crap"
Would you prefer "inconsistent", "incomprehensible", "obscure", "old-fashioned", "garish", "confusing", "misleading"? See this forum, Reddit etc for more.
but help to improve the situation
There seems to be a hole in the bucket.
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uwestoehr
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by uwestoehr »

berniev wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:05 am
uwestoehr wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:52 am It is not easy to follow you. You busted your balls? I hope you are OK meanwhile.
Maybe that's not an expression in Germany. Means worked very hard. Maybe you already know this.
:) OK, I got it now.
I thought about when I busted my balls - I tried to play handball at school and ended up in a hospital. In fact nothing serious but painful as hell.
berniev
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Re: about today's huge auto change

Post by berniev »

uwestoehr wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:13 pm I tried to play handball at school and ended up in a hospital
Ouch ! !
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